Software Product Owner

Rachel Houghton talks to us about her job, her awesome boss and what it’s like to work in software.

Transcript

Adam    00:00:06    Oh, my God Thora just hit me in the face! Hi, this is Adam.

Thora And this is Thora

Adam And I like to make her laugh. This is autism on shift where 

Thora we talk to other autistic folks about what we do at work. 

Adam Let’s dive in it. It’ll be fun 

Thora Today. We are talking to Rachel Houghton. Did I say that right, Rachel? 

Rachel Yes. 

Thora Houghton. Awesome. I got it. Okay. And Rachel is, uh, officially your official title is product owner, correct? 

Rachel Yes. 

Thora And you work in software, tell us what that’s like and what that all means.  

Rachel    00:00:46    So I do work in software. Um, I am not myself, a software engineer. Well, yet. I’m hoping to one day. Um, but I work with a team of software engineers and test engineers. Uh, and we basically, we take a bunch of work that I have kind of put together, um, geared towards, you know, new enhancements to the product that we have. Um, or maybe even small tweaks to, you know, fix certain issues that seem very buggy or bugs themselves cause they happen. It’s software. Um, so I take that work to my team and, you know, we, we work together to just, you know, get things done.  

Thora    00:01:38    Awesome. So can I ask what kind of software like  

Rachel    00:01:42    Yeah, so I work at a company called Vector Solutions and we’re transitioning into a solutions company. Um, we have many different types of platforms. Our primary platform is a learning management system, uh, where we do online learning, online based education, uh, courses, um, in many different fields, everything from the general, you know, sexual harassment and, you know, bullying in the workplace kind of courses that, you know, most companies require their people to take, um, to things like crane safety, um, or other courses that would be for someone who is, say a contractor who needs to get their continuing education credits to get their license renewed. Um, so it’s, uh, it’s a whole spectrum of types of courses for online learning. Yeah. You saw what I did there. So yeah, that, that, that is primarily what we do, but, but, you know, we do have also other products like incident management software, uh, which is, you know, if you are in a warehouse situation and, you know, there’s an oil spill and, you know, somebody slips and falls, you can, you know, log the incident and it kind of takes the incident all the way through the, you know, the, the insurance system and everything like that. So we’re kind of trying to integrate all of those different platforms into a single solution at the moment.  

Thora    00:03:15    How cool! Okay, so as a product owner, do you have just like one specific, um,  

Adam    00:03:22    Do you mean like one project at a time or,  

Thora    00:03:25    I mean, could you call it a project or I, um, I’m sorry to sound so ignorant. I just don’t know.  

Rachel    00:03:31    That’s okay. It’s okay. So the, the product that I work on has many different, we call them services, so many different things that it does. And so my team, my group has like a subset of those services. Um, there are multiple teams on that product in general. So if there are in special enhancements for any of those specific services or bugs that come in for those, those are the things that we work on.  

Adam    00:03:58    And do you guys figure out like the enhancements together, like when you’re in meetings or is that, or does someone else come up with those and then you guys work on them?  

Rachel    00:04:06    So we do have an executive leadership team that gathers, uh, information and data from client requests and, um, kind of looking into our legacy systems to kind of locate areas that are troublesome from a user experience perspective. Um, and then they kind of give us the work from a very high level. Um, for example, they’ll say, Hey, assignments are very awful right now, so we need to redo them. So I say, okay, let’s do it. And, uh, you know, I’ll dig into, you know, what it is right now and get a feel for what that experience is. And, uh, we have a user experience team that talks to the clients and understands where their pain points are. And, you know, we work to, you know, put a better workflow together. And then I take that to my team and, you know, we kind of hash through the technical aspects of how we’re actually going to accomplish what we need to do.  

Adam    00:05:08    So you’re a translator of sorts then dealing with the clients and dealing with the executive team.  

Rachel    00:05:15    That’s exactly, actually a very good way to put it. I am a translator. I take what the client needs and I translate it to my team in such a way to where what we deliver is actually what the client needs. 

Thora That’s awesome. 

Rachel Yeah.  

Thora    00:05:32    Okay. So when we spoke before you said something about stories, so you, you create, like you write a story about what a user experience I assume, and  

Adam    00:05:42    Yeah. Is that similar to like actually like a storyboard, like when you were making like a, like a movie kind of thing,  

Rachel    00:05:48    It is, it’s actually exactly like that. Um, we do, we do, what’s called story mapping where, you know, we take basically all these different actions that the end user, as we call them, um, all these different actions that the end user is doing, and we literally map it out step-by-step so that we can kind of hit all of those things that they need to do in order to reach a specific goal. So in that story mapping, I take each of those individual pieces kind of as a story itself and write it out and, you know, there’s, you know, different like acceptance criteria and all kinds of things that kind of go into that specific story as a chunk of work, to be done for the overall, what we, what we call an Epic, which is it’s the overall goal broken into these smaller pieces.  

Thora    00:06:40    It’s the trilogy, it’s the whole Marvel universe.  

Adam    00:06:43    I feel really good when you finish it though, then it’s like, we completed that Epic amount of work, or, you know, it’s like,  

Rachel    00:06:50    I’m embarrassed to say how gratifying it is. Actually.  

Adam    00:06:55    I totally get excited just thinking about it, like any kind of amount of work, but I like that sort of thing. I’m a task oriented person. So it’s like, as I check things off, I’m like, yes, yes, yes!  

Rachel    00:07:06    Yes. It’s very nice. So, you know, the projects become my baby to a degree. And so as we kind of get these increments out, these little pieces of it to the clients and they kind of start using them and give their feedback and, you know, we take that feedback and we put them back into the stories to make sure that, you know, we’re making the adjustments that we need before we get to the end, instead of building the whole thing and then sending it out and realizing we were wrong at the beginning. 

Adam Oops. 

Thora Wow. 

Rachel So that’s, that’s another part of my job is kind of balancing, you know, the delivery of it with the feedback of the clients and adjusting as needed.  

Adam    00:07:47    Okay. Yeah. So now the baby to college and oops, we forgot to let them teach them how to walk.  

Thora    00:07:57    So you had mentioned, this takes a lot of data analytics, right? Like you, you dig through data and you make it mean stuff, and then you apply it to the story. So that’s kind of, I mean, it’s kind of like full brain work, right? Like creative and logic and all at once.  

Rachel    00:08:14    It is full brain work, it requires, um, understanding the needs of the end user, understanding the current capabilities of the system and where those gaps are. And also understanding, um, from a technical perspective, what our capabilities are, um, and kind of trying to find that perfect middle ground of where we can get, where we need to go also with the minimal amount of effort. Um, because obviously it’s a business and, you know, you have this team of software developers and they are skilled and not cheap, so you gotta make sure you stay on budget. 

Thora Wow. 

Rachel So, yeah, it’s, it’s kind of perfect for me in a way, because my, I feel like my head is already kind of constantly going and I’m like, uh, I’m a problem solver. I’m a puzzle person. So it’s like I get to go to work and do puzzles all day. And it is perfect.  

Adam    00:09:15    That was funny. It was literally what I was going to ask you, is that something you like or dislike about em, but obviously clearly… that’s awesome.  

Thora    00:09:24    It’s very cool when there’s so many moving parts and that you can like, it sounds like you have the ability to both step back and look at all of the pieces and how they go together and then also dive into each part and, and figure out like each piece and what it needs.  

Rachel    00:09:41    Yes. That is the requirement of the job for sure.  

Thora    00:09:46    Oh, wow. That’s awesome. That is very cool. Um,  

Adam    00:09:50    Now you said this just started, you started in this position about six months ago. 

Rachel Yes. 

Adam So before that, um, before that, well tell our listeners at least, what did you do before that? And then I’m curious about something else after. Go ahead. And, um, I’m curious what you did before that.  

Rachel    00:10:07    Yeah. So before that, um, my title was business analyst and, um, really my job at that point was just to put those stories together. So it really was only like, uh, I say paperwork, it really was, was mostly paperwork. It did require some, um, ability to analyze data. Um, but yeah, that, that’s all I did was kind of putting all of that together. I was not, you know, responsible for prioritizing or timelines or, um, I guess there’s a part of my job right now where, you know, once the developer is complete, then I have to kind of look at it and make sure that it kind of meets the seal of approval. That wasn’t part of my job before. So a lot of what I do now is what I did before. It just is more now than before.  

Adam    00:11:04    And so, I mean, obviously pre, pre COVID, since you’re everyone you’re able to work from home being in software, on computers and everything. Um, do you remember, I’m just thinking back to like, you know, at the beginning, 

Rachel It seems so long ago!

Adam Do you remember what that was like when we could go outside? No, that was, I would say like, do you remember like the interview process that you went through to interview for the job in the first place? Was that like in person?  

Rachel    00:11:30    Um, so it was a combination. So, um, I interviewed for the business analyst position. Um, and my first interview was over the phone, which always gets me kind of nervous because if I can’t see the person in front of me, I can’t really gauge from their physical reactions. Um, if they are happy or not happy, you interested not interested. Um, um, I’m okay with voice inflection and those things, but, um, I definitely, yeah the, the phone interview is very nerve-wracking for me, but  

Adam    00:12:09    It would be for me, too. I hate the phone. Now. I know why those, you, you explained it very well for me.  

Rachel    00:12:14    Yeah. I, I really don’t care for the phone for like, without, yeah. I really don’t like it, but, um, I did end up getting called in for a second interview, which was in person. And, um, that was, uh, that had its own challenges. It was a new environment. Um, and it was one of those things where there’s like, Oh, we’re in this building that is attached to this other building, but the parking garage is over there. And then you have to go to the third floor and go to the left. And it was, I had it written down on a paper and like, I had to like, just calm myself down and just go step by step by step and literally like stop and pause in between, like, I parked my car. I’m like, okay, I’m parked. Now, get out and go into the lobby. And I really had to just kind of take myself step by step.  

Adam    00:13:09    That’s actually good advice though, too. Like, I think we were talking about that yesterday. Like just even driving somewhere, it was like, like downtown or somewhere where it was more busy or somewhere we haven’t been before. And it’s like, that alone is like super, um, what’s that word? 

Thora It’s anxiety-inducing. 

Adam Yeah, totally. 

Thora Yeah. 

Rachel Yeah. 

Thora I read something recently. There was, um, it was something to the effect of different days required, different number of steps sometimes for the same thing. And the, they use the example of like making coffee, you know, on a good day, the steps are, you know, fill the water, put the coffee in, make the coffee, you know, but on a, you know, on a, a harder day, it might be, you know, pull the pot out, fill the pot with water, take the water, put it in the thing, you know what I mean? 

Adam Throw the coffee pot across the room because it’s getting to be too much!  

Rachel    00:14:11    Yeah. Um, so, so yeah, it was, it was definitely very, very nerve-wracking. And then once I finally found where I was supposed to be, um, it was just one of those situations where like I was in the lobby and it’s like a glass wall behind me and there’s people in there. And then there’s people in front of me and there’s people kind of walking in all these different directions. And, and I knew, and like the person that was interviewing me was going to be coming out to greet me. And there were several times where I like stood up. Like I was going to be shaking hands with somebody. Cause I thought that they were the one, but they weren’t. And so they kind of looked at me funny and just went along their way. Um, and there was the dressing up and I’m not very comfortable in, you know, the business casual clothing. And so, yeah, it was, it was a little rough.

Adam I’m sweating. Just thinking about it, man.  

Rachel    00:15:13    Yeah. The, the interview itself was kind of okay, because we were, you know, we were in a room, it was just the two of us. And so it was a lot quieter. And I had, I had already talked to her on the phone, so there was already some familiarity and she was just friendly. So that also helped quite a bit.  

Adam    00:15:34    Yeah. I think the hardest in the interviews, I always tend like if someone tries to be real, like they don’t want to show you anything. So they just, every answer you give, they just keep that straight face, you know, like, and they ask the next question. You’re just like, Oh my God, I don’t know about other people, but that for me, just terrible. It’s like, you don’t need to do that. You’re not like saving the world here, doing that, you know, just be a human being with me please.  

Rachel    00:16:00    Yeah. Yeah, no, she, she was very warm and, um, just, you know, smiled a lot. And I don’t know, I just, I could get from her reactions, you know, she, she wasn’t like a robot, you know, sometimes those interviews and they just ask the question and you don’t get any like feedback, like instant feedback, like from in the physical nature. And that makes it very difficult, but that is not how, how it went. So 

Thora That’s awesome.  

Adam    00:16:27    Now, is this person, uh, someone you work with now or do you not see them anymore? Just HR. 

Rachel    00:16:32    Um, I do not see them anymore. She, uh, she was my manager, uh, for the first year that I worked there and then I had, uh, transferred to, um, a different product for about another year until, uh, I got this job.  

Adam    00:16:48    Okay. Nice. 

Thora Awesome. So, so let’s talk about, um, let’s talk about autism at work, right? Like sometimes it, sometimes it’s good for us and sometimes it’s not, um, let’s start with the not, um, how, how does it 

Adam Hinder? 

Thora Yeah, hinder? How does it hinder you in your job?  

Rachel    00:17:12    I think it’s gotten honestly a lot better since I have been able to work from home.   

Rachel    00:17:18    But I remember in the office, it was always, um, a lot more challenging again, it was like this business casual thing. So I was often physically uncomfortable because of the clothes that I was wearing. Um, and then, you know, just my, my office was literally like right here in the middle of a room where there was people over here and, and sorry, they can’t see me. There’s people on my left, there’s people on my right, and people walking by a lot. Um, so I had to, uh, you know, like keep my headphones and, you know, try to kind of stay as focused as I could. Um, but the, you know, the fluorescent lights and it was like a wall, the glass wall, like to outside. So if the sun was shining, then there was that, um, sometimes people have music playing, sometimes people would be eating at their desk, um, and eating very offensive. Um,

Adam I imagine it.

Rachel Yeah, just, you know  

Adam    00:18:23    Do you mean smells or like sound of, 

Thora Yeah, I’m going to reheat my salmon for lunch. 

Adam And my boiled eggs.  

Rachel    00:18:29    That has happened actually. Like, and I remember not really understanding because there was a lunchroom that really wasn’t that far away. So I didn’t understand the whole, um, I dunno, sitting down and eating, um, yeah. Was like, well, it’s certain things, um, like I’m allergic to shellfish, so I am very hypersensitive to the smell of, you know, shrimp or lobster or anything like that. And so anytime there was any sort of like a seafood thing, someone was eating, it was just very overwhelming. 

Thora Oh, wow. 

Rachel Um, and so yeah, that, that, wasn’t great. And then just, you know, sometimes people would just walk up to your desk and start talking and like, if I was in the middle of something and you know, this has been a challenge for me even before this job, when I was at my job prior, like, cause I did at one point work in customer support. And, um, so yeah, there were times where, you know, you just, the interruptions.  

Adam    00:19:37    Yeah. Getting back on task. I know for Thora, I can’t, I cannot interrupt her. I’m not allowed to, you know, and if I mean, you know, we’ve been together 19 years, so I, but I’m still learning because I am who I am. And so like, there’s this aspect of, okay, Hey, Thora, get her attention first. You know, can you pause what you’re doing? No. Then I’m like, ah, no, I gotta wait. And then if it’s yes, then she has to get to a breaking point. So she can go back to where she was after we’re done talking about whatever. I mean, it’s just how it goes.  

Thora    00:20:15    Yeah. I absolutely get the interruption disruption. It takes so much longer to get back into what, what I was doing, you know? Um, and it’s funny, like my supervisor didn’t get that. Um, you know, she wouldn’t, she, yeah, she would.  She, so she would give me a task, um, and then expect me to do it a certain way. And I was like, well, okay. But I would go and do it, you know, a way that made more sense for me. And she’s like, no, I need you to do it this way. And I’m like, yeah, but that interrupts this process. So I need to do all of this and then switch. And then all of this, otherwise I’m switching, you know, every five minutes and that makes my brain kind of freak out.  

Adam    00:21:02    Yeah. I can’t be micromanaged. I have to do it a certain way.  

Rachel    00:21:06    Yeah. I, I had a similar thing with, with my manager. She actually, her desk was right in front of mine. And so aside from tasks, having to kind of be done in a specific way, which didn’t make sense to me, um, which did cause some conflict. Um, it was just the constant, you know, turning around in her chair and be like, “Oh, by the way.” And I absolutely the two things I hate hearing the most at work is, “Oh, by the way” and “quick question”. Those are the two things that I hate the most because it’s never a quick question. Not ever.  

Thora    00:21:47    And even if it is a quick question, like returning to whatever it was you were doing is not going to be quick regardless. 

Adam Right.  

Rachel    00:21:55    It’s not, and often I would have like a list of tasks that I knew I needed to complete and I would have to do them, you know, like between meetings or something. And so I would have to time them accordingly. So if something was going to take me longer than I would have to do it, you know, maybe later, because I only have 30 minutes between these two meetings, so I would have to do something else during that time. Um, or even just, you know, there were days where I would be really hyper-focused and get, you know, an entire day’s work of work or in days worth of work done in a morning and then be pretty exhausted for the rest of the day. But I still, you know, would have to kind of just sit there and do my best to try to do more work. And it, um, yeah, I usually was feeling pretty exhausted by the time I got home.  

Adam    00:22:52    Yeah, I imagine. You know, it was kind of odd that, um, managers do that cause it’s kind of a business, uh, I mean, it’s, it’s written, I’ve read it a lot where it’s, you know, like the best way to be, uh, effective is to take on one task at a time, you know, don’t multitask take one thing. I mean, it’s stuff I read constantly for managers and, and business hierarchy, you know, take that one thing, finish it, complete it. That way, if someone interrupts you, you can go back to that one thing, you know, what you’re working on until it’s done. But yet when it comes to telling someone else what to do, they have no problem, like interrupt, interrupt interrupt. Here’s five different things, you know, it’s like, well, that doesn’t make much sense if you understand that, but maybe  

Thora    00:23:35    Yeah. Well it’s, it’s helped quite a bit for me. Like, um, now that I have learned, right, like my supervisor spent some time teaching me, you know, uh, my job tasks, but now that I’ve learned, I’ve been given the freedom to do them, how I can do them. So it’s like once she was able to kind of let me go, then I got way faster. So yeah, yeah,  

Rachel    00:24:01    Yeah. That, that’s the position I’m in right now. My, my supervisor, his name is Kenny. Hi, Kenny. He’s probably gonna listen, but, um,  

Thora    00:24:09    Hi Kenny!

Adam He’s the best!  

Rachel    00:24:12    He is actually the best. Um, you know, he, he was one of the first people that I actually came out to at work about. Um, my Asperger’s and you know, his first reaction was not what I was expecting. Um, I, you know, we’re used to maybe saying it to somebody and then like, they get kind of like standoffish. He didn’t at all. He was just like, kind of like, okay, well, cool. Why don’t you, you know, I don’t know much about it. I’ll tell you that. So how about, you know, we just have some conversation and you tell me what I can do and what you need from me in order to make things better for you. And he, yeah, he’s, he is the best, but, um, yeah, I, I have that freedom now and, and I don’t know if it is just like a side effect of working from home, but, you know, I, I have that freedom to where honestly, if I’m getting the work done and if I’m doing like any specific tasks that are asked of me, which is not honestly all that often, um, and the work is getting done on time and the quality is good, then, you know, there’s not a whole lot of intervention happening, so I’m free to do what I do.  

Rachel    00:25:26    And, um, apparently I, they, they like that. So, so I’m doing okay. They haven’t fired me.  

Adam    00:25:36    I think it does change a little bit from, you know, being at home because I think everybody tends to, well, you don’t want to interrupt as much because you’d have to actually call somebody on the phone, you know, or something, which I don’t think anyone really wants to do, you know, there’s texts and stuff. But I mean, in general, it’s like, do I really want to write that all out? Or I’ll just, maybe I’ll just do it myself today. You know, like, yeah, cool. You should do it yourself.  

Thora    00:25:58    I have a sched-, a regularly scheduled phone call with my supervisor, so I know what to expect. And, and, and it’s perfect. Everything else is written, you know, sometimes it’s like a, just a quick chat message. Oh, Hey, check so-and-so’s paperwork. You know? Um, sometimes it’s an email, Oh, Hey, here’s a few things I need you to do. Um, by the end of the week or whatever. So it’s like, it’s super, super helpful that I don’t get constantly interrupted.  

Adam    00:26:28    I have to sneak out. I’m just kidding. I never know what’s going to happen. Like I I’m, I’m out and about for my job. But when I get back to like my place of work, I have to, like, I never know what’s going to, is somebody gonna be there? Is there going to be four managers that each one of these managers, like, I don’t even know if I only one manager or four managers that, you know, like, who’s going to talk to me, who’s going to ask me something, you know, I’m like, I’m just gonna put my, I should just put headphones on. I’ll be like, Oh, Hey, yo, start acting like I’m talking to somebody and just keep walking out the door. And people are waving at me. And like, I’ll just wave back. You know? No, I mean, coming here, I’m like, okay, bye.  

Rachel    00:27:03    I, I’m not going to lie. I have gotten out of some conversations leaving work that way, just like putting my phone up to my ear, pretending like I’m on the phone because I have actually done that before.  

Thora    00:27:14    I love it. It’s awesome! 

Rachel A few times.  

Adam    00:27:16    I think people knew when I was doing it.  

Thora    00:27:21    What are they going to do? Make you prove it? Yeah. Who are you talking to give me the phone?  

Adam    00:27:24    They’ll ring that they’ll ring me. It’ll start ringing while I’m there. But I was going to say, you know, good for Kenny, because I’ve heard a lot of like, you know, when someone tells their boss, you know, Hey, I have autism or whatever. Like a lot of times they’ll be like, they’ll try and come up with things to help, uh, what fix them so that they can work inside of the business as opposed to what can I do exactly as opposed to, what can I do, uh, you know, for you to make it easier, you know, whatever so good for him.  

Rachel    00:27:55    Yes. Good job, Kenny. We love you.  

Thora    00:27:58    Awesome. I disclosed to my boss on day two. Um, I have, I spent many, many, many years, uh, working many, many, many jobs because yeah, I, I last about a year, maybe two years in a job before I’m ousted or just can’t mentally handle it and have to go. Um, so this time I was like, you know what, I’m just going to unapologetically be me. So day two, he’s like, you know, Hey, uh, it was kind of a real small group who had just been hired at the same time. And he said, so let’s get to know each other. I’m like, okay, well, the first thing you need to know about me is I have autism and, and everybody in the group kinda of like, you know, uh, but my boss though, to his credit, uh, seemed to know he asked a couple of questions that made it sound like he was familiar, at least like he knew what it meant to some degree. Um, so that was really helpful. And he didn’t like, he didn’t come across as shocked. He didn’t like freak out or do anything weird. But you know, he asked a couple of questions and I was like, yeah, 

Rachel You don’t seem autistic. 

Thora Yeah. 

Rachel I’ve gotten a few of those. 

Thora Oh goodness.  

Adam    00:29:13    What do we look like? Are we blue?  

Rachel    00:29:18    Yeah. I know a couple of people at work. I was just like, wow, I never would have known. You just don’t seem like, you know, you’re autistic at all. And um, I was like, okay? thank you…? Like, I don’t really know how to react to that, but okay.  

Adam    00:29:39    And then just walk away, let him, let him sit with that for awhile. That’s an interesting thing to say.  

Thora    00:29:48    I think people think they’re saying something complimentary. I think that’s what they think.  

Adam    00:29:55    It’s kind of weird because like we watched this video yesterday, uh, you know, a little different, but it was a disability, you know, it was visual disability versus non-visual  

Thora    00:30:07    Yeah, like a visible one and an invisible one.  

Adam    00:30:09    Invisible. Yeah. It was like this kid with Down syndrome and this guy, and it was funny. Cause he’s even said like, what do I have? You don’t know it’s invisible. You know? And it’s like, it was funny, it was really good. And it was, you know, it was thought provoking and it’s like, yep. That’s you know, but they were both talking about like, which is better, you know? Well, everyone knows. Everyone wants to give me a hug, you know? Cause I have down syndrome, you know, it’s like, and it’s like, the other guy said, well, no one wants to give me a, if I went to give people a hug, they would probably, uh, you know, call the police or something. And I was, it was pretty good. 

Thora Yeah.  

Rachel    00:30:42    Yeah. It would be like, please don’t hug me.  

Adam    00:30:48    I have autism. Awww, get away from me.  

Rachel    00:30:51    Yeah, really. It’s okay. You do not need to, uh, to hug me. I’ll be fine.  

Thora    00:30:56    Oh, my favorite is I’m sorry.  

Rachel    00:31:01    I have not gotten that one. I hope I never do.  

Thora    00:31:03    Okay. I’ve not gotten that one personally, but um, our daughter has Down syndrome and like when she was born, you have no idea how many, I’m sorrys we got,  

Adam    00:31:12    That was messed up. So otherwise, but yeah, the uh, Oh, well bless her soul.  

Rachel    00:31:19    Bless your heart. Yeah. I’m from Louisiana. I, I could imagine getting a lot of those there. Yeah.  

Thora    00:31:24    We know exactly what that means  

Adam    00:31:28    Um, I’m just, I keep thinking of Krav Maga now. I was like,  

Thora    00:31:34    Okay. But, okay. So, so, um, positive, positive package, silver lining, um, a good friend of ours when our daughter was born, uh, her response and this was, this was so, um, it was just so consistent with the people that we have in our lives. It was so awesome. She said, “Yay. We get to raise a baby with down syndrome!”   

Adam    00:31:57    Yep. That was awesome. That’s how we felt. We were like, yeah, it is awesome. Yeah. Speaking of which then, uh, since we asked you what, uh, can hinder you at work and we’d like to know also autism does to help you at work, which I think we might know, but I’d like to hear it from you.  

Rachel    00:32:15    Um, I think, and I think I kind of already covered it a little bit, but really I think the line of work, the fact that it’s, um, requires a lot of mental traffic, um, and organization of ideas and thoughts and problems. Um, I mean I get to solve problems all day. You know, I get, I get to, you know, figure out what is wrong and come up with creative solutions. And, um, I think the thing for me with my autism that is helpful, there is I might not come up with the solution that a neuro-typical person would come up with. I might come up with something that sounds completely out of the box and, you know, the first reaction might be like, wait, what, but then once I can explain it and you know, it is thought about a little bit, um, more than actually kind of a good idea. Um, like I, I can very much think out of the box and I can, um, I can come up with solutions quickly. Um, I can, I can take the time to kind of mentally process everything at a different speed. And, um, I think for me that is the biggest benefit of being in this particular line of work and in this, this particular job  

Adam    00:33:47    Right on. Yeah, that’s huge. I would think so. Awesome. 

Thora Um, so, Oh, we kind of touched on it, but I don’t think we actually dove deep. Like I wanted to, um, you mentioned, um, you know, Kenny asked you what he could do for you. What does he do for you? What are those things that he does for you that helped support you?  

Rachel    00:34:07    So I think the biggest thing is Kenny is really there for me. If, um, if like we need to sidebar, you know, we’re in meetings a lot together and sometimes someone like will be on a call and there will be like an analogy used like a con- like a very strange complex analogy. And I’m not like I’m okay with, with analogies kind of, but I’m just, I’m much more of a like, like tell me what we’re doing and tell me what you need from me. Just give it to me straight, kind of a person. And so there was one example that I can give you specifically where, um, our CTO was trying to, I guess, explain our, what we’re trying to accomplish in the product with like a home improvement analogy where he was saying, well, no, like, um, like, you know, sometimes like sometimes, you know, when you’re doing work, you know, you don’t want to rip out the whole kitchen to put the floor in. And I don’t know, I can’t, I can’t repeat it exactly, but it was, it was making no sense to me. And I was getting, um, I was getting kind of personally upset because I don’t like feeling like I’m behind everyone else. And so I was sidebar in with him. I was like, I have no idea what he is talking about. And so in just like a few sentences, he explained it to me and I was like, Oh, okay, well, yeah, fine. Why didn’t you just say that? 

Rachel    00:35:49    You know? Um, it’s good that those  

Adam    00:35:51    People in our lives that’s awesome then that, that is there, that person for you. Yeah.

Thora Yeah, that’s you for me. I mean, I, I, I call Adam my NT translator. He understands things about how it’s just things about the world that I don’t. Um, a lot of social things. Um, and when I have to do anything that requires some sort of like social interaction or some sort of like request, you know, whereas if it were me, I’d just straight up say, Hey, I need this, uh, you know, are you willing to give it to me? You know? And, and most people don’t like that. So I have to run it by Adam. Adam, how do I ask this in a way that doesn’t sound like I’m demanding? 

Adam Well, first take your hand off their neck. 

Rachel That would be a good first step. Yes. 

Adam Yeah. I make it up as I go along. I think that’s from failing a lot and I can help you  

Rachel    00:36:52    It’s how we learn, right? Our failures and not our successes. Okay.  

Thora    00:36:55    Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and I think it’s also partially too, that you are very good at putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and not just like, not just like in an analogy sort of way, like you can literally imagine being that person and imagine thinking what they might think, given all of what you know about that person. And you’re really good at that. Yeah. Tell me more about how good I am. And here I am, I’m just oblivious in my own little world. I’m just like, okay, this is, 

Adam You know, you’re learning to. You’ll get there one day. 

Thora Someday. So, so given everything that you know about how your brain works and what you need, um, to be successful, what do you imagine your dream job would be? If you could just make up a job that would be the perfect thing for you?  

Rachel    00:37:49    Um, it has probably absolutely nothing to do with what I’m doing right now.  

Thora    00:37:57    Ok.  

Rachel    00:37:57    Not that I don’t love it, but, um, honestly for me, if I could make a job out of like taking old houses and restoring them, like on my own schedule and like being in like being in charge of it though, like I have to, I have, it would have to be like the visionary. Yeah. Um, that would probably be the best thing for me for a couple of reasons. Um, I tend to get bored very easily with, with work if I’ve been doing the same thing for too long, which doesn’t really happen in my current job much. Cause it’s, we’re always doing different things it’s always exciting and new, but like, um, in that scenario, you know, you get a house and you, you fix it and then you move on to a completely different challenge. Um, but just the idea to me of taking something, to kind of like run down and restoring it to its glory. Uh, it, I guess it kind of aligns a little bit with what, with what I do now, but in a much different and much more physical sense. Um, that would probably be if I could do anything, that’s probably what I would want to do.

Adam That’s very cool!  

Thora    00:39:14    That is exciting. 

Adam I love that. That’s awesome. 

Thora Just remember the good advice of not ripping out the entire kitchen to lay the flooring. I had to. I’m sorry. 

Rachel It’s okay. 

Adam Oh, I was thinking it.

Thora Oh, were you really? I have no filter. It just comes out.  

Rachel    00:39:36    I don’t either. That’s another great thing with Kenny is he actually seems to, uh, appreciate my bluntness and my, my honesty, even when we’re in a call with 20 people and someone has, I don’t want to say an idea, but says, Hey, you know, we’re, we’re thinking about doing XYZ and, and I go, well, that’s dumb. I don’t, I really don’t think we should do that. I hate that. Like,  

Adam    00:40:04    Does he follow you and like explain it? Why? Like,  

Rachel    00:40:08    I mean, I will say that that particular trait has gotten me in trouble at work in the past. Um, but no, Kenny and, you know, honestly the whole, uh, executive team that we have, my, my team that I work with personally, um, is it’s just a great fostering environment. And they appreciate the fact that they, I think because they know if they ask me, I’m going to say what I really think, and I’m not gonna, you know, not say it and kind of privately vent to some rando about how awful I think the idea is, so.  

Thora    00:40:47    Yeah, I think it’s probably one of the most important things in a work environment. I would imagine, at least for me personally, if people valued honesty, then, you know, I think things would, would be, would work much more smoothly. Maybe?

Adam That would be so cool.  

Rachel    00:41:07    Well, I feel like I have that. So, um, I’m very, I know how lucky I am to be where I’m at. So  

Adam    00:41:16    That’s good. I’m glad. I think that’s about the time. 

Thora Yeah. 

Adam We really appreciate you being here with us today. 

Thora Yeah. Thank you for taking your time for us! Well, thank you all for listening today. 

Adam Thank you. 

Thora We had a great time. Any links for our guest in the show notes and the transcript of this podcast episode can be found on our website, carveresumes.com  

Adam    00:41:45    And we’ll see you next time with another awesome person with another sweet, cool job. Thanks for joining us. 

Adam & Thora’s Filler Word Counts*

Uh – 18
Um – 34
Like – 106
You know – 59

*DISCLAIMER: We only count our filler words. Guests are not expected to be professional speakers. I mean, we’re not, either, but we’re supposed to be… right?