Executive Assistant

Speaker 0 00:00:11 Hi, and welcome. Welcome. You're listening to autism on shift. I am Saara I'm Adam. What we do here is we talk to autistic folks about what we do for work. So they're on shift. Get it, but we also want to shift the way we think about what people with autism are capable of. Exactly. Yep. So today we are talking to Jessica St. Pierre, Jessica has been, um, actually we've spoken to Jessica wants to welcome back. Welcome back. Um, thank you so much for joining us again again, right. We totally didn't mean to waste your time, but, um, for the listeners, Jessica, so graciously agreed to hang out with us again, because she was our very first interview and we completely sucked as hoes. Speaker 1 00:01:09 That's true. Um, I don't think that's true, but I didn't listen to the recordings of, I believe you guys, but I'm glad that Speaker 0 00:01:17 Thank you. And you're very kind. Thank you. We appreciate it. Um, so Jess is an executive assistant and she's going to tell us all about what that means, and then we're going to ask her some seriously personal questions. Should I be scared? No, no, they're not personal. We're talking about work. How many teeth do you have you, and I don't know if that's the right answer. That was correct. We need some sound effects, right. Uh, okay. So, um, so tell us about the life of an executive assistant. What does your day-to-day look like? Speaker 1 00:01:57 Um, my day-to-day consists of a bunch of different tasks that are not necessarily related to each other. Um, as the, uh, the word, um, assistant, uh, says I'm, I'm there to help an executive in this case. Um, it's my boss. So she's the owner of the company I work for. It is a, um, doula agency. So basically, yeah, it's really exciting. It's actually really fun. Uh, um, so basically my boss, uh, has this team of doulas, uh, who she sends, uh, to customers who need help with prenatal and postnatal, help, whatever. Um, so I help her out with, uh, creating systems or, um, you know, uh, helping the doulas, uh, get in touch with the clients, uh, but also, you know, making appointments for her. Um, you know, it's a of little tasks, there's a lot of administrative, uh, paperwork as well that I help her with. So yeah, my work is kind of all over the place. Speaker 2 00:03:08 That's great though. You don't want to get bored and doing one thing over and over again, although some people do like that. Speaker 1 00:03:15 Yeah. I do enjoy some of my tasks more than others, but, um, for me it really keeps it fresh and I was, uh, kind of explaining to you guys the last time I do, I do feel like I'm the company's mom in the sense that, you know, whenever something goes wrong, people are going to come to me and I'm supposed to fix it. Uh, so that's the administrative part of that, but I also make sure, um, you know, I know I know the team, so whenever someone calls me and they're like, you know, I'm looking, we're looking for someone to be with us during birth or things like that. Um, I have to get to know these people and also think, uh, you know, who would be a good match in my team. So organizing the meeting between them, but also making sure that they will, um, have a good time together. You know, um, the entire team is awesome, but people have different personalities. So Speaker 2 00:04:12 That's interesting. That's kind of a cool, you're the matchmaker matchmaker matchmaker make me know. Speaker 1 00:04:20 I think I'm a pretty good judge of personality, which is kind of funny since we always say that, uh, autistic people are kind of blind to those things. I don't know if I've developed a stronger sense to make up for whatever I'm missing, but I, yeah, I think I'm a pretty good, good judge of personality. So, um, for me, that's, that's a pretty easy, Speaker 2 00:04:45 I think my, uh, autistic people are actually better at seeing through the baloney and, and you know what I mean? Right. Speaker 0 00:04:53 Like what's underneath, like what's the actual like intentions and there's exactly, and there's a whole conversation around, you know, uh, empathy and autism. There is, I mean, a lot of people have it like, Oh, autistic people don't have empathy. Well, we know that's not true. I mean, but of course then you have to have a conversation with people about what the differences between cognitive empathy and, um, um, emotional empathy and reactive empathy and all of those other different types. Right? Like there's not just empathy and that's, it Speaker 1 00:05:29 Definitely, definitely. That's a, that's actually interesting because I've been, um, having conversations about this at work recently, in which, for example, I didn't get into an argument with a customer, but, uh, we did not see on the same page on something. And I sent her a really, really, really long email explaining things and she was not happy and you know what, it's fine. It's all good. Um, we talked it out and, and everything, but, uh, I was really upset and when I'm upset, I try to give as much information to the person. So they change the, they understand my point of view because of how I like to be communicated to. Uh, but it, to them, it sounds like I'm not hearing what they're telling me. I understand that, but yeah, in this sense, I'm, I think I'm a very empathetic person. It's just, I feel things very, very strongly. It's my reaction that does not fit, uh, the neuro more neuro-typical um, uh, I'm looking for Speaker 2 00:06:36 Experience like the expression of that. Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:06:40 And it's, it's, it's good because, uh, for example, that gave, uh, I gave my boss and I an occasion to, to discuss that. And we have, you know, been trying to, uh, incorporate every week kind of incorporate talks about how, you know, we're both seeing things. So, uh, we, we have better communication. Speaker 2 00:07:07 So you're discussing the different perspectives that you see things as. Is that what you're saying? That's actually really cool. I like that. Cause I remember, I'm sorry if I run in front of a call the first time we had talked that, uh, the interaction, was it, didn't your boss ask you something that really helped, helped clarify the situation in the first place. Speaker 1 00:07:27 Yes. Uh, so I'll get back to, um, what I was saying just after, but yes, indeed. Uh, she, she did ask me, I, it was actually after that conversation with a client, she was like, do you understand why this, your reply can be seen as, you know, whatever the client says it wasn't right. The fact that she asked me that really changed everything for me, because usually people just assume. Yeah. And she was like, we're going to take time and see, um, you know, are we on the same page here? Even if you don't feel like, you know, the customer would like you to feel, or I would like you to feel, you see why we feel this way. And she's kind of open to doing this with how I feel as well, which is really awesome. Speaker 2 00:08:11 It's great. And I can see her doing such a good job as a doula, you know, having a dual agency with this personality. That's fantastic. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:08:19 And she said, you know, this, I actually cried when she told me that guys I've, I don't, I don't know if you've ever heard something like that in your life. But for me it was the first time someone told me that in the 33 years I've been alive, but she said, you know what, uh, she said, it's not really fair. That you're always the one that has to bend backwards for, uh, other neurotypes, you know, um, Y you know, she's like, I want to understand, and I want to, I want to know why you think this way. And, uh, and then she went on and she was like, Oh, and I met this Argo therapist, you know, she with autistic people and she's like, we should Speaker 0 00:08:57 Go meet her. We should have a Speaker 1 00:08:59 Meeting with her, see what we can do. So, so she's really, um, motivated to, uh, to have, you know, that, um, our communication, um, bridge the gap. Yeah, exactly. Which is something, you know, I'm so thankful for that. Speaker 0 00:09:17 How amazing would it be to have even just have some, a few random people be like, you know what, uh, I see how you have to bend. I want to bend a little too. That would be so helpful. Speaker 2 00:09:32 Yeah. I was a bit emotional thinking about that. I was like, Oh man, I'm really though. It's brilliant. And I wish I had some of that in my life. Right. I mean, cause I'm the same as you, I'm sorry. I'm the same as you, you know, where it's the constant going over it and, and, you know, and it's, you know, and I just recently, you know, I kind of say the situation, but it was, uh, just constant texting and texting and texting and, and here I am just stuck out there in the world waiting for something. And I'm stuck in my, you know, until, and I don't think people realize that it's, uh, you know, it's painful. It's just so much to go through. And then until I get like finally a response or something, and I don't want to bother people, you know, cause not everyone understands and I get that it's different for other people. Uh, but it is so it can be so much Speaker 0 00:10:27 It's exhausting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Speaker 2 00:10:31 Yeah. And everything takes longer to get done when something like that is going on. I noticed that I am not as efficient as I normally am and I can be ultra efficient. And then when something like this happens, uh, I'm lost and people say, Oh, Speaker 0 00:10:48 So it just takes up a huge amount of your brain. Speaker 2 00:10:51 There you go. There you go. Yep. Um, yeah, yeah, Speaker 1 00:10:55 Yeah. Yeah. It's like your CPU is all used up for that. And it's funny because before I was, before I knew that I was a autistic, I often wondered, I'm like, you know what? I feel like everyone around me has this infinite amount of, well, maybe for night, but a lot of a bigger bucket of energy that it can spend on helping others, uh, you know, what I'm making place for others in their lives. And I really wish I had this energy, but sometimes I don't because I'm just always, you know, I'm, I'm always so tired. And now that I have my diagnostic, I understand where that comes from and I can actually, well, I actually, I, I try my best to, um, surround myself with people who understand and are willing to make some adjustments, but it's not always possible obviously. Right. Speaker 0 00:11:52 So, so what about the idea of, and this is a conversation and it's not work-related, but it's just kind of us in the world related. Um, what about this idea of like taking up space, right? Like we should be able to allow ourselves to take up space and we are so often told that that's not okay. I mean, not directly, you know, nobody says, I'm sorry, you can't be standing right here, but you know, but the idea that like I have an opinion, I have a thought process. I have a perspective and I'm allowed to like, you know, exist in the world with that. Um, I, it, it would be, I don't know. I just, I guess I just wish people were more like your boss that gave us that space. Speaker 1 00:12:36 Definitely. And I think, you know, the way that we sometimes communicate what's going on in our mind, uh, people are gonna stick to that. You know, it's like, you're, you're for example, I'm just saying, because I'm, I'm, I'm hyper verbal. And when I write, I write novels all the time and people are like, Oh, there she goes again, you know, writing all that stuff. And they're not even going to read it because they just stop at the fact that I'm not communicating the way that they want me to communicate. So they're just gonna take it and toss it. But this is how I feel sometimes. And, um, I understand that a lot of people do not, you know, they're not aware of the way that we tend to communicate, but, uh, to those who, sorry, who are, uh, I don't think they should stop at that. Um, they should, they should not point out the fact that, Oh, this was not communicated the way that I, I, I was expecting it. So I'm not gonna just not going to listen to it. Speaker 2 00:13:37 Yeah. It's not helpful at all. And not to mention, you're not, you need to, everybody needs to put themselves in other people's shoes a little bit, and everybody has to come a little bit towards each other. I mean, if you just stand in your spot and expect everyone to come towards you and nothing will ever be solved, I mean, it's a, it's a given and take, right? Yeah. Speaker 0 00:13:56 Well, I mean, it's kind of like that entitlement we were talking about prior to the, you know, prior to the recording, you know, it's, it's like, you know, so many people stand in this space and they're like, I expect this and when I don't get it, then it's not valid. And just that needs, that needs to change too, I think. Speaker 1 00:14:18 Yeah. And it's, I think also people might not realize how much of that bending backwards we're doing. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:14:28 Yeah. Speaker 1 00:14:30 You know, they they're, they think that we're not trying, which is not, you know, not true. Um, so you know, there, I believe that some people might, might say or might think, you know, why should I, should I try it if you're not trying, but it's like, I'm trying so hard. Speaker 2 00:14:48 Yeah. You're putting a lot more effort in than people realize. And it always, you know, a lot of times it occurs as much more difficult than I think anyone is ever going to realize. And that's, you know, that's fair, you know, it's sometimes it's hard to see those invisible things, you know? Um, uh, but if I, I guess, uh, you know, I guess that's the point of a podcast like this, right. You know, to kind of opened people's eyes, Speaker 0 00:15:15 You know, in situations like that, I don't give up, I don't really give up, but what I have kind of done is yes, no, I try to stop bridging this communication gap, you know, it's, you know, I have a thing to say, I will say that thing. And then however they take it, they're going to take it. That's true. Yeah. And, and it works and it doesn't, and it depends on the person. And I, I don't know, maybe I'm old, but I kind of don't care anymore. Speaker 1 00:15:52 This is, I would say that this is how I've dealt with most of my life as well. Uh, it's just that now I'm less confused about it and knowing that I'm autistic and that this is the reason why, but, um, now if I have something to say, it's it, you're going to know it. You're, there's no way I can keep that inside. Or, and if you, you know, if you don't like the way that it's delivered or, um, you can't understand my point of view and, uh, you think I'm a bad person because of it. I honestly do not think I am a bad person. Uh, you're not wrong sometimes I'm wrong, but, um, definitely. Yeah. It's no, I totally agree with you. Speaker 2 00:16:39 Um, so you were talking about, uh, you, you guys were talking about, um, how you're more willing to say what's on your mind. And it made me think about, you know, when you found your diagnosis, uh, did that, did that specifically change, you know, the, being more open to saying what there was for you to say, did that make any sense? Speaker 0 00:17:05 Perfect sense. And I'm just, I'm trying to determine who should be Speaker 2 00:17:09 Okay. Cause when, when were you diagnosed? I mean, it was, Speaker 1 00:17:14 It was less than a year ago. So, uh, 10, I was diagnosed in, uh, March at the end of March. Speaker 2 00:17:22 So I guess my question is, is finding that out. Are you more, does it help you to be more open and say what there is to say, just by saying it out loud? Like how does I know you, you know, with the interview you had with your current, your boss and everything, I mean, you told her right away, right? Speaker 1 00:17:42 Yeah. Yeah. I told her, uh, in the first email I sent her when I was applying on the job and then I about it during the interview as well. Uh, yeah, this is something we had discussed last time. Um, when I got my diagnosis, I was really excited. So I told my previous boss about it and, uh, yeah, I was very, very, very open with him. Uh, we had, uh, uh, a very good relationship, so I figured, you know, um, it's all good. Um, I think it was all good for a while, but, um, in a sense he was, uh, this is what I was, uh, I was telling you guys last time is that he, I, I feel like he was, he walked into this with the feeling that there were things that can be fixed, uh, easily fixed. So, you know, I was like, you know, if you, if we do this this way, I'm going to be more efficient. Speaker 1 00:18:37 And he was like, all right. But then, you know, I was like the pandemic and everyone was burning out and some days I was not doing good. And he was like, well, why aren't you doing good? I'm fixed. I fixed your autism. Now you should, you should just be normal kind of thing, which is, which is really funny because, uh, you know, there, I know there's a lot of ADHD in his family and things like that. Maybe he's neurodivergent himself. I don't know. And he doesn't know if he is, but I don't know, it's, it's a possibility, but he sees things in a very, um, you know, if you tell me I do this, I get this result. This is what I'm going to get. And unfortunately, with, with autism, what you learn is that, you know, some days you, your abilities are kind of going up and down depending on a lot of factors. Speaker 1 00:19:29 Uh, uh, but I feel like when I was open with him, it didn't go so well. Uh, in, in the sense that I did, um, my, my, uh, my job ended up being caught a few months later, but also, you know, there was the whole pandemic thing, and I know they were actually struggling monetarily, but there's still this little thing at the back of my mind that I keep wondering, I'm like, what if I have not told him or whatever, uh, was that a key component in his decision to let me go, I have no idea, but it's unfair that you're going to be stuck having to think about that stuff. You know, it would have been unfair as well, keeping, you know, working and then just having what I thought were just, you know, panic attacks, uh, every few months at work and I'm crying and I'm just like, <inaudible>, I know those are meltdowns. Speaker 1 00:20:24 And, you know, and I can actually look back and pinpoint exactly how they happened. Usually it would be when, uh, you know, I'm working on something and then something else happens and then, Oh, can you do this as well? And can you do this as well and get, and then it's just it piles up and then boom. Um, so I, you know, it, it gave a way to understand myself better and I did try to work it out with my boss. You know, we, we did come up with really good systems, uh, for example, you know, he would tell me something and I would just forget. And so the, what, what we worked out was, uh, always write down everything and I'm super efficient when I write down everything, because then I have a list and I'm really excited to go through it. Um, Speaker 2 00:21:15 We both would love those tasks. Oh, I have a list sitting over in the dining room table and it's, it's all complete, but I hadn't thrown it away because it's all checked off and it felt really good. I'm like, I don't really want to throw it away yet. It feels so good. It's done. Speaker 1 00:21:29 That's how I feel as well. But, you know, uh, it, it, it helped and it helped me. And I guess it helped him in a way too, to understand these things as well, but it just Indiana, it didn't work out for, you know, for pandemic reasons and for whatever reasons, but I'm still glad that I said it. I'm still, I'm still glad that I said it. And I, I wouldn't take it back because I know I would be very unhappy. Speaker 2 00:21:56 You have to be honest with yourself. And I mean, uh, honest with yourself, isn't the right word. Is it authentic? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. You gotta say what there is to say. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:22:09 But what about you? Uh, cause you said, uh, I, Speaker 0 00:22:13 I think it's allowed me to kind of pick and choose, whereas before it was, there was so much of this, um, I have something I need to get across and people either don't care or they don't listen or they misunderstand, or they think I'm saying something else entirely. And then there's just this kind of general sense of dismissal. So then I was just, yeah, so then it was just this, it was, it was just me just insisting over and over and over again that I am heard, you know? Um, and now I think after having been diagnosed and, and kind of having more understanding, I don't have to insist, I just say what there is to say. And in the times where I know that the things I have to say, aren't going to be helpful or aren't going to produce anything, uh, you know, effective or good, then I just don't. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I'm not fighting constantly because I didn't understand why I wasn't being heard. Speaker 2 00:23:11 Not as much. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:23:12 It was very much brute force prior to my diagnosis. Yeah. But I think having an understanding now allows me to kind of pick my battles. Speaker 1 00:23:21 Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way of seeing it, I guess. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:23:25 One thing I remember you before the pandemic, or at least at the beginning, you were kind of doing half and half, am I right? Like half outside of your home and half in your home, is that correct? Speaker 1 00:23:36 Yeah. For most of the pandemic I've been working from home, but in this job that I have right now with the doulas, I do 50 50, I work part-time, I don't have a full time job right now, which is what I was looking for when I looked for another job, just so you know, because everything is so overwhelming right now. And also because I am in a place where I can afford. And I'm really, I understand that I'm very, very lucky to be in this position at this moment. It's the first time in my life that I can do that, but I'm, you know, I'm I met, how can I say that I'm enjoying the fact that I can. Um, but, uh, I work two days in the office, which is in a children's clothing store, baby clothing store, uh, and two days from home. Speaker 1 00:24:28 Okay. So, uh, uh, the two days that I do get to work in a more, you know, noisier environment, it's a very small store. And usually it's just me and the owner of that store plus, you know, um, the clients, whenever they walk in, but it's usually with very young babies, so they're asleep and it's, it's not that loud, but it does get loud. And I've, I've had these shoes, uh, especially around Christmas time when Christmas music was playing. And I was, you know, everyone's tired around the holidays. It's just, you know, there's no sunlight, we're all like, Speaker 2 00:25:05 So Speaker 1 00:25:06 I don't know. I am, I don't know about you guys, but Speaker 2 00:25:09 Think about a lot of stuff going through your head and trying to get everything done. Speaker 1 00:25:14 So, you know, I feel like if I had to work four days in the environment, it would be too much. Yeah. Uh, I think that it, to the, you know, the 50 50 is, uh, is fine for me right now. There's weeks where it's a little more difficult, um, because I'm used to working in more of a office environment in the past few years, which is quieter, I guess, in a store. But, um, yeah, for, for me right now, this is kind of the best, um, uh, compromise that can make, I guess, because I do get to be a little social, uh, which is good, but I also get to be not social except for the clients of course, but that's just, you know, that's part of the job I send, if I can send an email instead of calling, I'm going to do that for sure. Speaker 0 00:26:07 Yep. I get that. Speaker 2 00:26:09 Well, yeah. And that makes sense too, that, I mean, the doulas that you're sending out would be, you know, they want, they need that personal one-on-one, as opposed to, you know, you wouldn't have to, an email would make sense too, so there's nothing wrong with that. Speaker 0 00:26:22 Um, so, so let's kind of lead into, because I imagine as an executive assistant, you have a lot of, um, uh, a lot of priorities, a lot of stuff that requires organization. Can we talk about like that part of your job and then your executive functioning and how you kind of make those two fit together? It's the, the Speaker 1 00:26:44 Basic, the basics of my job, I, I would say organization and I am definitely someone who struggles with executive functions. Um, so tasking is initiation, sorry. And, uh, you know, uh, short term memory, things like that. So I have had to, uh, throughout the years kind of work up, uh, systems, uh, so I can remember things and also prioritize because, um, one of the, one of my big issues, as well as tasks switching. So if I'm doing something really, you know, it's, it's not important, but I'm so focused on it. It's I know there's something bigger I should be doing, but I can't get to that bigger thing until like, uh, I finished a small thing. Yeah. So, uh, I, I do use, uh, quite a few apps like Trello or to do, uh, things like that, uh, wonder list when, when it existed, it's, it's it merged with to do Microsoft now, but, um, these really helped me out because I can set a timer and I can set, uh, you know, there's an order in which I can put things and I can put a sticker. Speaker 1 00:28:01 So I have a visual of, you know, what, if I see an, usually I would write the, uh, the client's name and then I have all their information on there. And then I'm like, okay, what do I have to do with this? You know, this name it's. Um, so, um, I have, you know, organization systems like this, um, and it's really, really make, made a difference in how I work. Um, I apply those things in real life, on and off as well. I shouldn't, I should stick to it more. Um, it's, it's more that my, my partner is, uh, you know, is stressed out by lists, so Oh, really make them, uh, it there for myself. So it's, well, they aren't that bad cause I don't, I don't see little sticky notes all over your walls or anything like that. So yeah, I do tend to keep them mostly on my, on my phone. Speaker 1 00:28:56 Um, but yeah, my calendar, my calendar on my phone is like a Christmas tree. It's every kind of colors and, you know, everything is color coded and everyday has like tons of stuff. So I'm guessing you don't, I'm guessing you don't share that calendar with your partner? No, I think if he just saw it, he would freak out. We're, we're kind of, we're kind of similar but different and, uh, he's, he's not autistic, but, um, he does have OCD, so he like, he, uh, he will stress out if he sees, you know, has to do something. He'd rather just, you know, do it whenever he feels like it, but not, it can't be forced. It can be a scheduled thing. Yeah. I get that. It's like, if I don't force myself, I won't do things. So I have to, I, I know, uh, yeah, I used to be worst procrastinator. Speaker 1 00:29:51 Uh, when I was a younger, you know, I would do my homework the night before and freak out. And then at some point in my twenties, I kind of realized that I was very unhappy doing this. And once I found those systems, I really felt like a lot better. So I was like, Oh, I'm just, you know, it sucks while you're doing it, but it, it sucks less than taking out panicking. I'm spending so much energy just being like, Oh my God, why didn't I do it yesterday? Um, but yeah, it, it really helped me out at work and it helped me get into more complex positions at work as well. I feel like I'm getting more respect taking on more responsibilities. And, um, I feel like people see me as a, you know, someone they can count on, which I did not feel when I was just, you know, by myself, what else? Kind of crutches, but they're not really crutches. I feel they're just, uh, tools, uh, function, you know, properly. And it's, it's really awesome. Speaker 2 00:30:57 I think, so I thought was, I always liked the idea of having like a, a robot body I'd like to keep my head, but you know, the robot body, there's nothing wrong with being able to lift an extra few hundred pounds or something. You know, I don't want every part robotic, you know, I like my feet. Speaker 0 00:31:14 My thing is like my thing with the organization. And it's not so much organization because I don't have Speaker 2 00:31:22 Organizational skills. I'm just kidding. Sorry. Speaker 0 00:31:26 Uh, you know what I do, but it's like, it's like, that's one of those mind switch things. Like I have to put myself in organizational slash prioritizing mode and then I have to mode. Yeah. And then I have to create the whole structure of everything while in that mode. And then I can turn that mode off and just follow the outline. Exactly. Speaker 1 00:31:47 Yeah. That's exactly how I work as well. Speaker 2 00:31:49 Yeah. And I think, yeah, I was going to say you guys are similar because, um, you know, when you're talking to like the procrastination and stuff, like, I ain't even got Thor shirt at one point in time. I think it was, uh, with the pro it was not procrastinator. It was pro crass, the Nader, she was the pro at it, but honestly in the last, even the last six months, but you know, over the last year we've done so many things that I, you know, I've watched Dora do more and more, uh, as she's gotten some of her own structured things. And she's more happy just like you, as she's doing things as they come, as opposed to kind of sitting them off to the side. Like in any time I've seen you, you know, be like, you know, you're like, you know, those days where we don't want to do things, we just let them go. It's that, uh, it's the toilet bowl, you know, it just goes down and, and worse and worse if you don't take it on in that moment and get it completed. Um, you know, so I've definitely seen that for you as well and spectacularly done. So in the last six months, a year, I mean, do so much. And it sits neat to watch. Honestly, Speaker 0 00:32:54 I got, I got my diagnosis just over a year ago Speaker 2 00:32:59 And that's, that's what I'm saying. It's like some of the understanding of yourself, you know, it makes a big difference. That's what I was curious earlier too. But yeah, Speaker 1 00:33:05 I know if I was discussing that with you guys a lot of time, but I know this is something I often think about. I'm not good at working out. Um, but if I get an app or an, a goal, uh, it's a lot easier, but for example, I love running on the treadmill, but I absolutely cannot do running outside because on the treadmill I have steps and I can see how, how well I'm doing. Uh, if I run outside, I know I'm doing something good, but it's so, you know, um, uh, theorial it's yeah, it's, it's not tangible. So I don't care. I have, I have my Fitbit, if I go for it, Speaker 0 00:33:44 <inaudible> go for a walk Speaker 1 00:33:49 Walk without the Fitbit. It's like, Oh, it didn't count. I feel like if we find tools, um, that are similar to that for work, uh it's, it's actually really helping us. And, um, yeah, like good habits. And, uh, this is what motivates us. I feel like a lot of, you know, neuro-typical, people are motivated by success or money, uh, things that I do not personally feel very, um, you know, motivated by personally, I don't know, I'm not talking for every autistic person, but, uh, of course it's nice to have a little money. Of course it's nice. But like, I, this is not what I, I crave, so yeah, for me, yeah. It's a, it's a better motivator, so yeah, really thankful for those apps in, uh, I guess in like ni era we live in, uh, for that make our work easier, I guess. Speaker 0 00:34:54 Absolutely. Can we talk about some concrete examples that your boss, um, does to help you, uh, and support you in your job? Speaker 1 00:35:05 Um, well, first I guess the 50 50 arrangement, uh, letting me work from home on certain days, uh, is one of those. Uh, but also, you know, um, if, if, if, if, if I do tell her that, for example, I'm getting a sensory overload or something like that, she will, um, she will try to, um, to, to address those things. Um, I guess it's, it's good that we talk about it outside of when it it's happening, because as you guys know, when you're in sensory overload, you're not always asking nicely. Speaker 0 00:35:42 Yeah. <inaudible> Speaker 1 00:35:48 When I feel like I'm able to voice it, it's because I'm already at this, in this place where I'm not feeling good at all. And I feel like I'm being attacked or something like that. Although it's not so much Speaker 2 00:36:01 Some good advice though, to think about for everybody. It's just, you know, when you know that that's something that you deal with is to maybe discuss it with people that are around you and people that are willing to work with you when, when it's not happening, you know? Speaker 1 00:36:14 Yeah, exactly. So of course we can discuss it when it's happening and what it does happen. And I'm always trying to remind her that I'm not angry at her. It's just at the moment I'm kind of in fight or flight mode, but yeah. Um, it's, it's helped to talk about it outside of when these things are happening. Um, so coming back to it, but also by being open, upfront and open from the beginning for me, I know it's not, you know, it's, I don't think that everyone can come out as autistic at work. And I understand that it's, it's definitely not easy for everyone. Uh, I'm in a very, very lucky position where I can be open about these things, but it's really, really made a difference. It really made a difference, uh, compared to all the million other jobs I've Speaker 0 00:37:00 Held in the past where, Speaker 1 00:37:03 Where, uh, I always quit because I did not feel, uh, I belong, uh, in these places, but looking back it's also because I could not express my needs. And, uh, it's in that sense, I don't think it's, um, my, my previous bosses or team's fault because, you know, if you don't know what's going on, you can't necessarily address these things. But, um, I think that being upfront about it has completely changed the game in, in, in my, uh, experience. Speaker 2 00:37:40 Well, that makes a lot of sense, cause it's not just, I mean, and you got to think that's, it's not just about you, it's the people around you. So, and I tell people all the time, it's like, you know, I want you to be honest with me, you know, of course that's why I'm saying, I want you to be honest with me because I'm not being honest with you. I'm not, you know, I'm not open at work, like, you know, and stuff and it's, um, but it's, uh, that's not very fair for people around me who don't get to, if they would want to be helpful, but I assume they wouldn't because that's what I've dealt with in my life, you know? Um, so I think it's, um, I think it's probably very helpful to say, Hey, this is what's going on. And then other people, you know, you expect it both ways, you know, and I guess that's what I'm saying Speaker 0 00:38:24 In an overarching sense. That's exactly what we're up to here. Yeah. I mean, I want, I mean, yes, of course our audience is likely going to be autistic people who interested in what we do for work and how we, you know, how we operate at work and how do we manage our executive dysfunction and all of that good stuff. Um, but I really hope that, you know, neuro-typical people listen and, and try to get an understanding and try to see that, you know, what you, and for those of you, neurotypical people listening, you know, you're awesome. You know, us we're out there, you might not know that we're autistic, but we are there and it it's helpful. Um, for us, if you make space for us, I guess, is what we're up to. Speaker 2 00:39:16 Yeah. Speaker 1 00:39:19 Very like, um, I think we have a lot of great qualities as, as a worker, you know, the, the ones of us who are, um, you know, uh, have a job and hold a job. I think we have a lot to bring to teams of different people. It's just, I F I feel like there's a side of us that is often really, um, how can I say that? Like, I'm, I'm often told, you know, I'm, I'm such an amazing worker when I started job and I'm masking, you know, like 100%, and then they're like, wow, you're so awesome. Like they get, get over how awesome I am until, until I, you know, some, some less savory sides of my autism come up and then they're like, Whoa, Speaker 2 00:40:12 Whoa. Speaker 1 00:40:15 I thought you were awesome. Weren't you awesome? Speaker 2 00:40:17 <inaudible> Speaker 1 00:40:20 I like everyone. I'm just a human being, you know, it's like, I have really awesome sides and I have less awesome sides. And, you know, if, if this is what people are, that is my good side, Speaker 2 00:40:35 Take another shot. Speaker 1 00:40:37 If people are realistic about, you know, if they know what to realistically expect from us, um, both the awesome and the less Speaker 0 00:40:49 The struggles, the things that, the things that we have to work harder for. Speaker 1 00:40:55 Yeah, exactly. And the fact that these things are going to exist no matter how you treat us, uh, if, if, if those things are accepted right from the start, I guess it's gonna, it's gonna make, uh, communication so much easier Speaker 2 00:41:09 Humans accepting humans. Yeah. That does sound good. Let's just, can't we all just do that, right. It sounds so, uh, easy idealistic, but, uh, it's really, shouldn't be that easy, honestly. No middle of the bit at a time. Right. Speaker 0 00:41:31 All right. So let's wrap up with the million dollar question, you know, um, the parts of you that you have to work hard for. And we talked about the parts of you that are super awesome, um, and that are easy to show when you're masking. Um, so given all of that, what would your dream job be like? What, where would you fit? Speaker 1 00:41:55 I feel like this, this is the most difficult question I've had to answer my entire life piano. You get asked as a kid, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I'm always like, I don't know. And I'm 33, almost 34. And I still don't know. Um, I say ever since I got my diagnosis, obviously there's, I've been thinking a lot about, uh, goals that I've had in life, um, that, you know, I've, I've always felt like one day I will be where I need to be to achieve those goals. Um, and now I am more realistic about it, uh, because I understand better with, um, what is, you know, what kind of drains my energy really quickly and things like that. Like, for example, yeah, Speaker 0 00:42:42 I was going to say, so are you saying you lessen those goals or you just adjusted those goals? Speaker 1 00:42:47 Well, it's kind of both, both, and that's the thing, you know, I've, I've wanted to be so many things in life. Uh, and I have, like, I know I told you guys, I have several degrees. I'm not working in any related jobs job related to those fields. So I don't think that my dream job is, uh, related to a surgeon field. I think it's more related to, um, maybe the kind of tasks that I'm doing or the team that I'm part of. Um, and this I'm still kind of, uh, on the lookout for, I know that I like, uh, um, for example, repetitive tasks, like organizing, I really enjoy, you know, checking lists. I really enjoy. Um, but also I like a little bit of diversity. So it's like, you know, kind of finding the perfect balance between these things. Um, I think that I'm awesome at customer service until I am not Speaker 0 00:43:54 So Speaker 1 00:43:55 That I'm very aware of. Um, so, and it drains me to, to work with people I do always kind of end up in helper positions. Like I'm always helping others, which is really, um, fulfilling, but also really tiring. So I there's, there's like, there's like a balance I need to find, and I'm still looking for that balance right now. My job is the fact that I'm not working full time is really helpful, uh, because I have energy left to do other things like art and, uh, things I do for myself one day, if I could live off, uh, you know, my art or, um, even like writing or, um, maybe, you know, something in relation to autism, I would love that. Um, it's just, I don't know if I have the executive functions to kind of, to kind of, uh, do that. So I would need to, I would need my own executive assistant. This is like one day. So I don't know. I don't define myself by the work that I do. Maybe one day I will. Um, but until now I haven't, and I, I can't seem to find the, you know, the one thing that is Jessica St. Pier, you know, I'm, I like, I like to paint, I like to write, I like to make music. I like cats. I like, you know, I have a bunch of special interests as well. Um, but Speaker 2 00:45:27 I think you're further along than a lot of people, because I think a lot of finding that, you know, and it's not necessarily the dream job, but necessarily where you fit in perfect for who you are. And a lot of that has to do with that. Self-reflection. And so, you know, you've noted all these things that are, uh, um, the skills that you have and what you're good at and what fits best for you. And like, that's, that's the beginning of finding where you want to be. And I think that, so you're, you're doing pretty well. I'd say Speaker 1 00:46:00 I feel lucky that, um, I got my diagnosis during the pandemic in the sense that it has allowed me to self-reflect a lot more and unmask a lot more, uh, at home, uh, by myself not being stressed by external factors. Um, it's just, yeah, it's, it's I realize now that I've been, you know, in this mindset for a year now almost, and the, I still have answers to find, and I still have a lot of questions to ask myself. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:46:34 You think it will be a difficult, um, when we're allowed to get back out into the world with people, um, that'll be, uh, such a change from being able to learn things on your own and, and deal with them on your own. Speaker 1 00:46:49 Yes. And this was actually since the beginning of the pandemic, that's been my worst fear. I mean, I, I understand the severity of whatever's happening in the world right now, but, uh, on a personal level, the moment we went into lockdown, I was like, Oh no, it's going to be so hard to get out of that. And since I've been kind of in and out of it, because, you know, they keep closing down everything and reopening, and it's just every time I feel like it's difficult and it's really, I've just, you know, started working a little bit more hours at work. And I feel like I'm kind of already, uh, getting, not swamped, but kind of taken that, uh, that routine, um, that doesn't allow me for that kind of a self-reflection as much. And I I'm realizing it. It's it's like, yeah. So I'm, I'm doing as much as I can at the moment while I know that. Speaker 2 00:47:46 Yeah, no, that's smart. I definitely understand that. Well, I think that's it, but I really just want to thank you again so much for being here twice with us. We loved it so much. I mean, it, actually, the first one actually worked perfectly. We just liked you so much and we didn't have a good excuse to bring you back. So Speaker 1 00:48:05 You guys don't need, excuse us, come on. Speaker 2 00:48:10 I feel you, man. So thank you so much for being with us. Thank you, Jess. Well, that was fun. Thank you guys for joining us today. Speaker 0 00:48:21 Next time. We'll have another guest with another awesome Speaker 2 00:48:24 Job. Yes, we will. That's what we do here. Speaker 0 00:48:27 I just wanted to remind you that this podcast is produced by our business carved resumes. You can see the show notes in the [email protected]. We are the autistic communities expert resource for getting a job.